to fatal morgana from newbies thread

[Anonymous]

For having such high calcium numbers, there's surprisingly little corraline growth.

 

[Anonymous]

see apology below. I am human after all.

Anaerobic action can not filter out toxins nor consume ammonia,

Aerobotic bacteria transfers ammonia to nirtite then finally to nitrate where anaerobotic bacteria turns the nitrate to nitogenous gas.
So bacteria completes the nirtogen cycle on its own.

...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely wrong. The aerobic bacteria stops at nitrates and with no other actions nitrate accumulate in the tank.


Anaerobic bacteria consumes the nitrates to nitrogen gas. And also can release toxic suflides and ammonia in the process.

plant life will consume ammonia before nitrAtes if it is available. As the aerobic bacteria multiply they convert more and more of the ammonia to nitrItes and then nitrAtes. At which point the plant life consumes the nitrAtes. So after awhile the aerobic bacteria is breaking down waste to nitrAtes then the plant life consumes that nitrate. But if something goes bump in the night (something dies, one time over feeding, whatever), the plant life immediately startes consuming the ammonia instead of the nitrAtes. So instead of a huge deap life threating cycle, all that happens is nitrate bumps up. If the bump is temporary, the plant life just resumes consuming nitrAtes as ammonia is lowered. If the bump is more permanent aerobic bacteria starts converting the increased ammonia load to nitrItes, nitrates, and the plant life then consumes the nitrates. So all you get is a little faster plant life growth.

 

[Anonymous]

For having such high calcium numbers, there's surprisingly little corraline growth.

Well I got about 10 or so small dots on the glass and they seem to increase each week. And some hard green algae areas also. Perhaps what is happening is the oyster shells are not "forceing" in calcium over what the tank can use. So the corraline growth is slower. But as the corraline has increased, the calcium has remained at 400-420.

 

[ChrisRD]

Aerobotic bacteria transfers ammonia to nirtite then finally to nitrate where anaerobotic bacteria turns the nitrate to nitogenous gas.
So bacteria completes the nirtogen cycle on its own.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely wrong. The aerobic bacteria stops at nitrates and with no other actions nitrate accumulate in the tank.

Anaerobic bacteria consumes the nitrates to nitrogen gas.

Did this strike anyone else as pretty funny?

 

[Anonymous]

Anaerobic action can not filter out toxins nor consume ammonia,

Aerobotic bacteria transfers ammonia to nirtite then finally to nitrate where anaerobotic bacteria turns the nitrate to nitogenous gas.
So bacteria completes the nirtogen cycle on its own.

...

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely wrong. The aerobic bacteria stops at nitrates and with no other actions nitrate accumulate in the tank.


Anaerobic bacteria consumes the nitrates to nitrogen gas.

Thats pretty much what Ben said!

And also can release toxic suflides and ammonia in the process.

You have sand in your tank, and are therefore 'culturing' the bacteria the perform denitrification. You, with your miracle 'plant' system, have exactly the same chances of having a release of toxic sulfides as the next guy.

 

[Fatal Morgana]

Aerobotic bacteria transfers ammonia to nirtite then finally to nitrate where anaerobotic bacteria turns the nitrate to nitogenous gas.
So bacteria completes the nirtogen cycle on its own.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely wrong. The aerobic bacteria stops at nitrates and with no other actions nitrate accumulate in the tank.

Anaerobic bacteria consumes the nitrates to nitrogen gas.

No, both Ben and beaslbob are wrong.

The aerobic bacteria oxidize ammonia to nitrite, and finally to nitrate. The anaerobic bacteria, on the other hand, can reduce the nitrate back to nitrogen gas....

 

[Anonymous]

removed by beaslbob see apology below.

 

[Anonymous]

For anyone else wtill reading page 12 or whatever. Guy is one of my groupies to at follows me around attempting to disprove anything and everything I say.

Wow. What a rarity.

He thinks Dr Ron's snapshot of reef tanks is science.

Hold up bob. Now you are bashing Ron when before you use his liverock/algae write up as support for your ideas? Make up your mind. Is Ron scientific or unscientific, or does that determination depend on his findings supporting your point or not?

And because xenias had twice as much nitrate in them then caulerpa, that proves that xenies consums more nitrates than caulerpa. Whereas I post who/epa data where plant life was kept in various levels of copper for two weeks. Then the increase in copper in the plant life was measured. From that data I calculated that 1/10 pound of that plant life would consume the copper in 90% of the housholds in the US in two weeks.

You can determine for yourself which is scientific and which is not.

Are you really claiming that your conclusion is scientific? That your assumption that cold water 'plants' will function the same way as the 'plant' life in our tanks is in any way scientific?

Your ideas seem to be based on assumptions of assumptions. Hardly science.

 

[Juck]

Whoa,, I must have missed this,,, how exactly do you overdrive a NO flourescent bulb?

If you're wiring both connections from a dual ballast to a single bulb then I don't think that would be the result would it?

Kinda like welding two 150 horsepower cars together,, doesn't mean it will go as fast as a 300 hp car.

 

[Anonymous]

For anyone else wtill reading page 12 or whatever. Guy is one of my groupies to at follows me around attempting to disprove anything and everything I say.

Bob, you're not a hard guy to refute. You are the easiest of targets. You have zero credibility here, and I imagine the same is true on other boards. You run people in circles with your inane garble, constantly miss the points they are trying to make, and ignore all logic and worse yet, the vastly superior experience levels of those you are attempting to argue with. Even when someone agrees with a point you are making, (rare, but it happens) you fail to grasp even that and continue to argue in circles. You post a picture of what has to be the ugliest tank I've seen on this board, and continue to present your case on why a noob should strive for such a thing. I'd be bummed out if my SUMP looked like your tank.
Be glad Guy even gives you the time of day - most of us it seem to think you're a waste of time by now.

Jim

 

[Anonymous]

Ben:

I was worng. I am sorry

I skimmed over the anaerobic bacteria after nitrates. You are correct bacterial action alone can have an end result of nitrogen gass.

my original post is still valid, but my oversite was a mistake.

 

[Anonymous]

wondered when you would follow me here .

Huh??

I've been here for years. And I haven't used Tap water in my reef since 1979. I learned that lesson pretty quick.

I don't try to disprove everything you say. Only where you might send a new hobbiest down the wrong path. I actually agree with a couple of your theories.

I see you're not in the new hobbiest forum here. That's a good thing and the correct place for your theories. I'm not concerned at all for the hobbiests in this forum they understand reefkeeping better than either of us.

 

[Anonymous]

Whoa,, I must have missed this,,, how exactly do you overdrive a NO flourescent bulb?

I use an IceCap 660. It works quite well.

The GE Ultradaylight puts out about a 6500K color and it has peaks that are suprisingly similar to many Daylight Reef bulbs.

It definately requires some Actinic to drown out the Yellow though.

 

[Anonymous]

how exactly do you overdrive a NO flourescent bulb?

I'm not going back looking for the reference, but you can put a NO bulb in a VHO rig, no problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Whoa,, I must have missed this,,, how exactly do you overdrive a NO flourescent bulb?

If you're wiring both connections from a dual ballast to a single bulb then I don't think that would be the result would it?

Kinda like welding two 150 horsepower cars together,, doesn't mean it will go as fast as a 300 hp car.

basically yep. but you only get 1.7 times the wattage not twice. confirmed with my cheapie light meter.

here's a link on exactly what I did. even has pictures

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load ... 72000.html

they were available to $7 each on the home depot web site. But were removed and back ordered because of demand.

My tank is much better with these fixtures but also nitrates went to 0.0 at the same time. So is hard to tell if the nitrates or higher lighting had the most effect on the coral growth. Fish did fine either way.

Bob

 

[Anonymous]

He thinks Dr Ron's snapshot of reef tanks is science.

Hold up bob. Now you are bashing Ron when before you use his liverock/algae write up as support for your ideas? Make up your mind. Is Ron scientific or unscientific, or does that determination depend on his findings supporting your point or not?

Two different articles two different studies.

My only point is Guy's use for Dr. Ron's snapshots as scientific proof that xenias consume more nitrates than caulerpas can not be drawn from Dr. Ron's study. The only conculsion that can be drawn from that study, is the conditions of that tank's reported at the time they were being measured. No other conclusions can be drawn. You can not conclude any affect on any tank parameter by anything in that study.

You are correct the other study I did point to his idea that algae is what makes live rock work, and that the assertion that anaerobic bacteria also works is unproven. But actually there was no measurement there also. But I did like the anacdotal information though.

 

[Anonymous]

I said 4 months it could have been longer. Hard to keep track of time.

I see you went back and changed the time you've had the Clownfish from 4 months to 8 months. An honest error in time.

Oh, are these the same Clownfish you bought in October last year? They sure have changed in the last 4 months, oh, I mean 8 months, oops... I guess it's been a whole year. You'd better go back and edit it again. I've never known Clownfish to change their stripe pattern after they've matured. That's pretty cool...

 

[Anonymous]

wondered when you would follow me here .

Huh??

I've been here for years.

well new to me anyway

And I haven't used Tap water in my reef since 1979. I learned that lesson pretty quick.

But I thought you emailed my that you were using water from your tap and posted that just recently you added an ro/di unit for your peace of mind.

I don't try to disprove everything you say. Only where you might send a new hobbiest down the wrong path. I actually agree with a couple of your theories.

I see you're not in the new hobbiest forum here. That's a good thing and the correct place for your theories. I'm not concerned at all for the hobbiests in this forum they understand reefkeeping better than either of us.

My point was and will remain that you are filtering your systems with a refugium full of plant life and xenias. Then you tell me that estabishing a refugium as the first thing is the wrong path. If newbies want to buy all the equipemnt, have all the fun of maintaining it, suffer the cycles, algae blooms, get fustrated and leave the hobby that is fine. I just offer what should not be considered an "unproven', "dangerous', "experiemtal" alternative. Just as your system proves right now. All the newbie has to do is start the refugium first then do all "your" stuff. Six months from now they will have a system with refugium. Just like yours or mine. That should not be considered something dangerous to hide from the newbies.

But then they just might find out they can skip a couple of water changes, nitrates remain at 0.0, cycles are vastly reduced or eliminated, algae blooms are a thing of the past, things live and thrive under much lower circulation and lighting, daytime ph is 8.4 with no buffering. but that's all a side effect. they can still do all those things even if they first establish plant life and get it thriving as the first thing. And the plant life to me is the key not the rest.

 

[Anonymous]

I see you went back and changed the time you've had the Clownfish from 4 months to 8 months. An honest error in time.

Oh, are these the same Clownfish you bought in October last year? They sure have changed in the last 4 months, oh, I mean 8 months, oops... I guess it's been a whole year. You'd better go back and edit it again. I've never known Clownfish to change their stripe pattern after they've matured. That's pretty cool...

Just checked with the wife and they are the same fish. And that also agree with the 8 months or so for the first anemone. We have only bought two clownfish for this tank. I think they have the same stripes.

but then I could be wrong also. But in this case with your reminder I now realise these fish have been in the tank a year.

 

[Ben1]

No, both Ben and beaslbob are wrong.

What I wrote wasn't wrong just mis-spelled. As always with me, when are they going to add a spell check to this thing~ :!: