A guesstimate of the donation breakdown would be that about 25% of the $4000 came from industry and 75% from hobbyists. That said, I think the people who were willing to donate did so. When we reopened the donations so we could go ahead and get some nets to Indonesia as well, the response from hobbyists was no where near as "hot" as it was the first couple weeks of the initial drive.
Letter to Paul Holthus
- Thread starter MaryHM
- Start date
A guesstimate of the donation breakdown would be that about 25% of the $4000 came from industry and 75% from hobbyists. That said, I think the people who were willing to donate did so. When we reopened the donations so we could go ahead and get some nets to Indonesia as well, the response from hobbyists was no where near as "hot" as it was the first couple weeks of the initial drive.
JennM":2u8sv7eh said:
Jenn,
The truly committed hobbyists (or whomever) who would fund the running of the organization would open their wallets or not join, period.
After this, in looking actual donations, why would you limit yourselves to the hobbyists? Heck, they would be the last ones to fund it (although they stand the most to gain as consumers... But that is a discussion for another thread...), IMO. Such an NGO should hit up retailers and manufacturers first to try to self-fund from within, all while going after grant money.
If the NGO does its job, it could go out of business in a couple of years, mission accomplished.
If the NGO doesn't do its job within that time span, then it also deserves to be shut down for non-performance.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
MaryHM quoting SciGuy2":26qpd5c1 said:
Mary,
Respectfully, you missed my point and quoted me out of context. The full quote is:
SciGuy2":26qpd5c1 said:
I never said that this forum has had little effect. I think it is a great tool for awareness and reform. I said the "taunting, ranting and raving" has had little effect.
Back to the subject, the initial letter you sent to MAC was full of excellent points and questions. I do wish MAC would respond in some direct fashion.
-Lee
JennM":3sfxt6qy said:
You slay me, Jenn.
Jenn, you are a MASNA BOD member. Would you like to see innocent MASNA slip into the sometimes dark world of the NGO? With what I'm paid for my involvement with MASNA ($0.00/yr) I'm scared of the additional work it would entail. :lol:
Sorry about missing your point. I get a little touchy when I think people say this forum has no impact.
About MASNA- how about if MASNA just sets up some type of committee whose sole purpose is educating hobbyists about the use of cyanide? No money raising or anything- just pure education. If this is something MASNA would be interested in pursuing, I'd be willing to help. However, let's start another thread if we're going to discuss it. My poor old letter thread is now a novel
About MASNA- how about if MASNA just sets up some type of committee whose sole purpose is educating hobbyists about the use of cyanide? No money raising or anything- just pure education. If this is something MASNA would be interested in pursuing, I'd be willing to help. However, let's start another thread if we're going to discuss it. My poor old letter thread is now a novel
JennM":qoufw5r9 said:
OH GOD!!! :lol:
A tip, the foil should be that extra-heavy duty stuff you get at Costco, and it's supposed to either line your windows and walls, or (better yet) make a pointy hat.
Believe it or not, several Heaven's Gate members lived in my apartment complex when I lived in sunny San D. Weird doesn't begin to describe 'em.
seamaiden":2d2f2pvn said:OH GOD!!! :lol:
A tip, the foil should be that extra-heavy duty stuff you get at Costco, and it's supposed to either line your windows and walls, or (better yet) make a pointy hat.
Ohhhhh a pointy hat
I like that - it has fashion, style and we can paint a big D on it and be done with it Take me to your leader....... :twisted:
Jenn
It only took a month and a half, but here it finally is. The MAC response to my letter. I'll post it here and then comment on it in another post.
June 19, 2003
Hi Mary,
As the lead for MAC interaction with the industry in the US, Paul has asked me to respond to your questions. Also sent as an attachment if easier for you Mary.
Re Your first question about "Finding Nemo" publicity:
We feel it is important that we use important opportunities to promote the responsible marine aquarium trade and hobby and its realization through MAC Certification. So, although the timing is not perfect in that there is a limited supply of MAC Certified organisms, we don't think that it is a problem that we encourage, through our work with Nemo, that people ask for the MAC label when searching for fish to purchase. We feel that it is important to continue to strive to bring a higher profile to this industry's drive to reform and the role of the Marine Aquarium Council in this. Increasing supply that can be certified is the primary focus of our efforts and supply WILL catch up to the demand. The primary drive of our Nemo related work is to promote responsible aquarium keeping. For example, our new magnet card for hobbyists states on one side:
Before You Start, Be Smart
* Learn about marine animals and aquariums *
* Look for MAC Certified marine animals *
* Use quality equipment and supplies *
* Plan for routine maintenance or your aquarium *
* Be patient - a successful aquarium takes time *
* Do your part to conserve coral reefs *
Responsibility & Knowledge
The fish and reefs are counting on you!
The answers to your other questions are:
Re CDT Plan Implementation
MAC's CDT implementation plan requires interaction with other organizations outside of MAC. As with any plan there are developments that prevent it from being implemented on exactly the timeline that was proposed. We are a bit behind at the moment on the current step as BFAR and Merck requested that we postpone the start of the program until the last week in June 2003. Implementation of workable and reliable CDT systems is a very high priority for MAC.
Re MAC brochures claiming that the MAC program certifies animals are coming from well-managed reefs. How can MAC make this claim if the CAMPs do not require a resource assessment to be in place prior to certification?
Resource assessments have been carried out on both the MAC Certified collection areas. Resource assessments are a requirement for every future MAC Certified collection area. Assessment of the resource base is an on-going part of every CAMP and is an integral part of a resource management process. It is, however, only one component of a resource management process needed to manage a marine aquarium organism collection area towards sustainability.
The EFM Standard requires the development and implementation of a Collection Area Management Plan (CAMP). This is a significant undertaking for rural villages and involves major time and effort by those in these communities - and major commitment of time and resources from MAC. It is also important to realize that the CAMP is not a "one time" plan, but is an evolving management plan for the area that is updated regularly and as more information comes available, e.g. from the collector's logbooks, from resource assessments and monitoring activities.
MAC's resource assessments are undertaken with two intensities (i.e. rapid and full resource assessments). These are described in the MAQTRAC protocols. MAQTRAC is produced by Reefcheck on behalf of the Global Coral Reef Monitoring Network (GCRMN) - the official international grouping of scientists that develop reef resources assessment methods - to establish monitoring methods for collection areas and marine aquarium fisheries (MAQTRAC). Responding to MAC's request for assistance, GCRMN asked one of its members, Reefcheck, to work with MAC on development of what has become the MAQTRAC system. The resource assessments carried out in the first two MAC Certified collection areas in the Philippines were part of MAQTRAC development phase. The initial working version of MAQTRAC was launched at the International Tropical Marine Ecosystem Management Symposium (ITMEMS) in the Philippines recently.
Re MAC certified fish are now hitting the retail market. Retailers are not being told that they are not allowed to advertise MAC certified fish unless their facility is certified. How does MAC plan to address this problem? Are there policies in place requiring this information to be distributed by MAC certified wholesalers?
Importers are required to put a statement on their invoices and other paperwork stating that their retailer customers cannot use the MAC logo or advertise MAC Certified fish as MAC Certified if they are not themselves MAC Certified. When a MAC Certified organism arrives at a non-MAC Certified facility it is no longer MAC Certified.
Re What is preventing anyone from writing "MAC certified" on their tanks? If a retailer does this (either out of pure intention to defraud or from purchasing fish that are touted as MAC certified on their invoice), what action with MAC take?
The MAC Label/Logo and the term MAC Certified are protected as registered marks by law. When informed of an improper use of the MAC label, MAC first will contact the offender and inform them of the legal requirements involved in the use of a registered mark and ask them to cease and desist in its use. Anyone using the mark (logo/label) that is not MAC Certified and refuses to comply with the requirements of use will be dealt with by the due process of the law.
We however, try to work with these companies on a more positive proactive basis to get them to follow up on their obvious interest in MAC Certification and work with them to become MAC Certified. We have generally found that the misuse of the MAC label was not intentional.
Thank you Mary.
Best regards,
David Vosseler
Director-Americas and the Pacific
Marine Aquarium Council
Email: [email protected]
June 19, 2003
Hi Mary,
As the lead for MAC interaction with the industry in the US, Paul has asked me to respond to your questions. Also sent as an attachment if easier for you Mary.
Re Your first question about "Finding Nemo" publicity:
We feel it is important that we use important opportunities to promote the responsible marine aquarium trade and hobby and its realization through MAC Certification. So, although the timing is not perfect in that there is a limited supply of MAC Certified organisms, we don't think that it is a problem that we encourage, through our work with Nemo, that people ask for the MAC label when searching for fish to purchase. We feel that it is important to continue to strive to bring a higher profile to this industry's drive to reform and the role of the Marine Aquarium Council in this. Increasing supply that can be certified is the primary focus of our efforts and supply WILL catch up to the demand. The primary drive of our Nemo related work is to promote responsible aquarium keeping. For example, our new magnet card for hobbyists states on one side:
Before You Start, Be Smart
* Learn about marine animals and aquariums *
* Look for MAC Certified marine animals *
* Use quality equipment and supplies *
* Plan for routine maintenance or your aquarium *
* Be patient - a successful aquarium takes time *
* Do your part to conserve coral reefs *
Responsibility & Knowledge
The fish and reefs are counting on you!
The answers to your other questions are:
Re CDT Plan Implementation
MAC's CDT implementation plan requires interaction with other organizations outside of MAC. As with any plan there are developments that prevent it from being implemented on exactly the timeline that was proposed. We are a bit behind at the moment on the current step as BFAR and Merck requested that we postpone the start of the program until the last week in June 2003. Implementation of workable and reliable CDT systems is a very high priority for MAC.
Re MAC brochures claiming that the MAC program certifies animals are coming from well-managed reefs. How can MAC make this claim if the CAMPs do not require a resource assessment to be in place prior to certification?
Resource assessments have been carried out on both the MAC Certified collection areas. Resource assessments are a requirement for every future MAC Certified collection area. Assessment of the resource base is an on-going part of every CAMP and is an integral part of a resource management process. It is, however, only one component of a resource management process needed to manage a marine aquarium organism collection area towards sustainability.
The EFM Standard requires the development and implementation of a Collection Area Management Plan (CAMP). This is a significant undertaking for rural villages and involves major time and effort by those in these communities - and major commitment of time and resources from MAC. It is also important to realize that the CAMP is not a "one time" plan, but is an evolving management plan for the area that is updated regularly and as more information comes available, e.g. from the collector's logbooks, from resource assessments and monitoring activities.
MAC's resource assessments are undertaken with two intensities (i.e. rapid and full resource assessments). These are described in the MAQTRAC protocols. MAQTRAC is produced by Reefcheck on behalf of the Global Coral Reef Monitoring Network (GCRMN) - the official international grouping of scientists that develop reef resources assessment methods - to establish monitoring methods for collection areas and marine aquarium fisheries (MAQTRAC). Responding to MAC's request for assistance, GCRMN asked one of its members, Reefcheck, to work with MAC on development of what has become the MAQTRAC system. The resource assessments carried out in the first two MAC Certified collection areas in the Philippines were part of MAQTRAC development phase. The initial working version of MAQTRAC was launched at the International Tropical Marine Ecosystem Management Symposium (ITMEMS) in the Philippines recently.
Re MAC certified fish are now hitting the retail market. Retailers are not being told that they are not allowed to advertise MAC certified fish unless their facility is certified. How does MAC plan to address this problem? Are there policies in place requiring this information to be distributed by MAC certified wholesalers?
Importers are required to put a statement on their invoices and other paperwork stating that their retailer customers cannot use the MAC logo or advertise MAC Certified fish as MAC Certified if they are not themselves MAC Certified. When a MAC Certified organism arrives at a non-MAC Certified facility it is no longer MAC Certified.
Re What is preventing anyone from writing "MAC certified" on their tanks? If a retailer does this (either out of pure intention to defraud or from purchasing fish that are touted as MAC certified on their invoice), what action with MAC take?
The MAC Label/Logo and the term MAC Certified are protected as registered marks by law. When informed of an improper use of the MAC label, MAC first will contact the offender and inform them of the legal requirements involved in the use of a registered mark and ask them to cease and desist in its use. Anyone using the mark (logo/label) that is not MAC Certified and refuses to comply with the requirements of use will be dealt with by the due process of the law.
We however, try to work with these companies on a more positive proactive basis to get them to follow up on their obvious interest in MAC Certification and work with them to become MAC Certified. We have generally found that the misuse of the MAC label was not intentional.
Thank you Mary.
Best regards,
David Vosseler
Director-Americas and the Pacific
Marine Aquarium Council
Email: [email protected]
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