Etail/AMDA

[dizzy]

I think the money would flow one hundred fold for these efforts under a NEW AMDA Steve.
1. A huge membership brings in huge dollars.
2. The AMDA wholesalers profits could be reinvested in these initiatives rather than line the pockets of the EWs.
3. A united strong AMDA would attract dollars to its environmental efforts from those who want to see a proactive approach .

Wayne makes valid points above. A strong powerful AMDA would be the best possible weapon in the war on cyanide and poor handling. If we have to do some things to help protect retailers in order to get people to send in their membership fees then so be it. The current net fund has stagnated. I personally donated about half of the money. AMDA is not growing and we are watching our members being picked off by parasitic etailing, one at a time. It is time we help each other.
Mitch

 

[naesco]

Then the new president will have to be a philanthropic business manager...
not a diver. I'm going back in the water soon.
Steve

If the current BOD and membership buys into what has been discussed in this thread, (great thread Mary) than I agree.

The new President needs to be a leader with proven management skills.
Planning skills for the enormous growth potential will be key.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz, et al.
Before you repond to a free-lance hobbyists gameplan for AMDA, please check w/ us first.
He means well...but hes from, er...Canada...you know, next to France.
Steve
PS. Why not start a CAMDA up there Wayne?

i'm not responding to any 'freelancers', unless that's who originally wrote the amda letter

and you avoid the central point of the question

let's just suppose. for a moment, that 104th now decides to play hardball, and the etailers band together ala good ol' capitalistic competition...

and they really lowball stuff even further, to force lower prices across the board...

that leads to an increase of the very practice you're trying to curb, no?

 

[clarionreef]

Could you rephrase that...?
Not understanding is different then avoiding...
I will say however, that all the sales talk is losing me. I can already tell that we will follow the reptile dealers into self destruction. Many reptile wholesalers also sell to their customers customers on the same day.
I know several trying to get into Saltwater to escape the kingsnake.com jauggernaut where wholesalers openly sell to the public. Its had the effect of a new Walmart in town killing off everything in sight.
AMDA merely seeks to rally its own and promote face to face service and accountability [LFS's] as a better way to get into and stay in the hobby.
Steve

 

[JennM]

I'm not being defeatist... just realistic, and reluctant to throw my cash into the ring where it might just go nowhere. In my experience, joining these groups (and I've joined a bunch of them) are just paying people to pat themselves on the back and have "free" rubber chicken dinner now and then to justify the fee... been there, done that, not doing it again until I can see value in my dollar. Jenn

Jenn no one gets paid to serve on the BOD of AMDA. We have paid Steve's way when he speaking about the net issues at MO and such. We also sent him to PI to report on the current state of affairs. Both were no frills cheap fares. AMDA needs members who are willing to help themselves to some degree. Ask not what AMDA can do for you, ask what you can do for AMDA.
Mitch

You misunderstood what I was trying to say, and re-reading my post, I can see where it got discombobulated. Let me try to say it more clearly this time...

I have never been a member of AMDA, and my statement was a generalization and not pointed at AMDA. Furthermore, none of the organizations that I have spent my money on, was composed of people compensated to volunteer on the BOD.

What I was *trying* to say was that I had paid membership dues in various organizations, mainly to listen to a BOD pat themselves on the back and compliment one another but each organization seemed to really lack substance or value for the membership. The only thing I have ever "received" in return for my dues was a free meal from the state-wide group I joined... and I didn't have to be a member to partake - I could have not joined and let somebody else's dues pay for my meal. We got a nice talk/presentation too, but in 2 years of membership that's all I got back for my dues. I could have bought a nice dinner out and a good book on the subject for the same money.

Again, I'm not slamming AMDA with that observation, but until I see AMDA pick a direction and stay the course, I am not interested in joining. I am supportive in principle, of the ideas being put forth by the current leadership.

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

Whew! Go to work for a day, miss a lot! I obviously need to stay home more often.

Mary I was wondering how you know so much about the LA wholesaler's ties to etailing?

It's not some huge secret, Mitch. I talk to big wholesalers- I'm friends with some. We talk about these things. Even the ones that have tried desparately to keep it a secret (I won't name any names) have eventually been found out. When you're saying the Asian wholesalers, I assume you mean ***. If AMDA thinks *** is the way to go, then be my guest. Please, buy as many of their fish as you want. I'm sure Steve would approve. :roll:

Our drygoods wholesalers have agreed to help get the new message out to our fellow retailers, as there are also negatively affected

Honestly, the drygood manufacturers are the biggest whores in the industry in my opinion. Talk about lowballing product... That's where etail started- with the drygoods. And it's expanded from there.

I can't believe you don't understand what a serious issue this is

Please tell me where I said this wasn't a serious issue? My whole point of this thread, which has been missed time and time again, is that I don't understand the problem with facility etailers. I do think AMDA should fight against the drop shippers and the jobbers because those companies DO have an unfair advantage.

If I was a wholesaler I would seriously consider changing my ways so I could be attractive to this new group of consumers.

Tell ya what. You grow the AMDA membership to a few hundred stores (which according to you should be a snap), guarantee me $15,000 worth of orders from AMDA members per week (that's really only about 30 people ordering each week), and I'll drop etail. Of course, I'll expect some type of contract in return. You've got it in writing and I'll honor it. Promise. But since AMDA didn't support me before, I doubt they would now. Mitch, they all (vast, vast majority) want cheap variety. Period, end of discussion.

The buying group could arrange exclusivity with suppliers from the Christmas Islands (by way of example).

Oy. Wayne, do you have any idea what is involved here? (Rhetorical question) The only way AMDA can arrange exclusivity from an entire region is to have a HUGE wholesale facility here on the west coast. Even then, the only sure thing about an exclusivity agreement in this industry is that it will end eventually. It happens time and time and time again. Regions such as Xmas Islands have NO variety. Woo-hoo- AMDA has some flame angels. I can get those from Marshalls or Vanuatu or Cooks just as easily. It's just not as simple as you lay it out. It's impossible to lock up exclusivity on a species. And if someone else has access to that species and low balls you, then who cares if you have an exclusive Xmas agreement???

The rape and pillage comes from Etail/Wholesale (EW) that bring in tonnes and tonnes of cheap cyanide caught Philiippine and Indonesian fish and sell them to unsuspecting newbies at apparently cheap prices only to have them die in their tanks.

That has got to be one of the most foolish statements I've seen yet. B&Ms buy WAY WAY WAY more cheap cyanide caught Philippine and Indonesian fish than etail ever thought about. And they sell them to unsuspecting newbies at normal retail prices (or high retail) only to have them die in their tanks. Rape and pillage does NOT come from etail. Etail is a part, but in the grand scheme of things no where near as large as B&M. We really need a "duh" emoticon.

An AMDA wholesaler would have the ability to negotiate healthy specimens at great prices from the suppliers. In effect the AMDA wholesaler would be the cherry picker for all of you.

AMDA had a wholesaler that gave them net caught fish and cherry picked corals. They opted to go for cheaper prices and higher variety.

After all it makes no difference to the EW because his customers can't see what they are buying anyway.

Wayne, etail business is conducted over the internet. Most reefers buying etail are on the major discussion boards. These boards have "vendor feedback" forums. It doesn't make sense for an etailer to send out crap on a consistent basis, because his entire customer base is going to read about it on Reef Central! Are there crappy etailers? Sure. I think that's why so many come and go. The ones with the staying power must be doing something right. Same scenario can be applyed to B&M. I'll tell you why DFS is so successful. It is run by BUSINESSMEN who know how to make deals and market. Not some hobbyist who is so in love with his 55 gallon marine tank that he has now decided he has the aptitude to run a pet store. I have seen this time and time and time again and so has every wholesaler. B&Ms were going out of business on a regular basis before Al Gore ever even invented the internet.

The current net fund has stagnated.

Now this I find interesting. How much money was donated by your concerned membership? Have you even promoted this net fund other than through a posting here? There's nothing on your website about it. Have you made it easy for people to donate? Have you laid out the program in a detailed way so people know exactly where their money is going? I'll be brutally honest here. I think the handling of the AMDA net fund has been laughable at best. There has been no organization whatsoever. It seems to me like it's been a half-assed attempt since the beginning.

 

[nanocat]

Even if there is some form of unity between the white boys, I doubt it extends to the Asian wholesalers....Mitch

Way to go...racism along with rudeness :roll:

One can only pray there aren't any black wholesalers...I'd like to see you refer to them as black boys :evil:

 

[naesco]

Mary posted as follows

Oy. Wayne, do you have any idea what is involved here? (Rhetorical question) The only way AMDA can arrange exclusivity from an entire region is to have a HUGE wholesale facility here on the west coast. Even then, the only sure thing about an exclusivity agreement in this industry is that it will end eventually. It happens time and time and time again. Regions such as Xmas Islands have NO variety. Woo-hoo- AMDA has some flame angels. I can get those from Marshalls or Vanuatu or Cooks just as easily. It's just not as simple as you lay it out. It's impossible to lock up exclusivity on a species. And if someone else has access to that species and low balls you, then who cares if you have an exclusive Xmas agreement???

Well Mary it would have to be a huge facility. It would have to be to deal with the orders from virtually every B&M.
If quality is much better, everybody gets to cherry pick, and prices are fair why would they want to buy from their competitors? It doesn't make business sense.

 

[JennM]

We really need a "duh" emoticon.

:roll:

I thought I found one but I couldn't post it right.

Duh me...



Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

----

Does the line of thinking on "e-tail=bad" extend to e-wholesale as well? (Just curious, doesn't really affect me much..)

 

[naesco]

Quote:
The rape and pillage comes from Etail/Wholesale (EW) that bring in tonnes and tonnes of cheap cyanide caught Philiippine and Indonesian fish and sell them to unsuspecting newbies at apparently cheap prices only to have them die in their tanks.


That has got to be one of the most foolish statements I've seen yet. B&Ms buy WAY WAY WAY more cheap cyanide caught Philippine and Indonesian fish than etail ever thought about. And they sell them to unsuspecting newbies at normal retail prices (or high retail) only to have them die in their tanks. Rape and pillage does NOT come from etail. Etail is a part, but in the grand scheme of things no where near as large as B&M. We really need a "duh" emotic

I think that it is highly improper for you to put down the B&Ms in the manner that you just did. I believe an apology is in order

Mary, I stand by what I have posted.

I have had an opportunity of looking at some of the EWs lists.
I have the folowing comments.

Interesting; They all only buy net caught fish (this is where you need the duh symbol)

Interesting; They carry such a variety and apparent unlimited quantities of these net caught fish (duh)

Mary you have on numerous occasions made the same interesting comments.

 

[devils advocate]

AMDA with it's own wholesale facility...ha, ha, ha ,ha. I thought the membership dues are only $50? How many memberships are required to setup and operate it? Wayne...how could ALL the members get to "cherry pick"? If you are talking having 100's of members, wouldn't this facility fall victim to it's own so-called success? Wouldn't there be only so many "cherry" items? Somehow I just can't see all the members staying happy towing the AMDA line purchasing from this facility that they have paid for only to be getting the same product prior to forking over their membership dues. Idealists...

 

[Anonymous]

AMDA is not interested in telling members where to buy fish. We are only interested in supporting the traditional retailer. Our goal is to put the info out there and let the stores decide for themselves who to purchase from.

 

[devils advocate]

Just trying to point out how silly the suggestion of an AMDA facility is...that's all.

 

[dizzy]

Even if there is some form of unity between the white boys, I doubt it extends to the Asian wholesalers....Mitch

Way to go...racism along with rudeness :roll:

One can only pray there aren't any black wholesalers...I'd like to see you refer to them as black boys :evil:

Your the one that started the rudeness and your back at it. To my knowledge the Asian wholesalers were not invited to attend the white wholesalers meeting. Interpret that however you like. I wasn't invited either, but I did tell Mary that I thought they should include the Asian wholesalers. White people aren't generally offended by being called white boys, at least not in the South. What country are you from anyway?

 

[MaryHM]

You know what, Wayne? You are completely correct in everything you say. Things are as black and white and simplistic as you lay them out. How silly of me, with my 15 years of industry experience in retail, wholesale, etail, and serving on the boards of 3 different organizations, to question your complete understanding and firm grasp on the issues at hand. I say you run for AMDA president!! Lead us into the future!!


A couple of random quotes for the pure enlightenment of it:

It is not necesssary to understand things in order to argue about them.
- Caron de Beaumarchais

Behind every argument is someone's ignorance.
- Louis D. Brandeis

And for the literaries in the crowd, a poem, by Phyllis McGinley:

"When blithe to argument I come,
Though armed with facts, and merry,
May Providence protect me from
The fool as adversary,
Whose mind to him a kingdom is
Where reason lacks dominion,
Who calls conviction prejudice
And prejudice opinion."

 

[MaryHM]

To my knowledge the Asian wholesalers were not invited to attend the white wholesalers meeting.

Your knowledge is severely incorrect and whoever is informing you is an IDIOT. All Seas was invited, but decided at the last minute not to attend. We were all pretty surprised at their no show. There are people other than "whites" that own wholesale operations, Mitch. Good grief. And some of them were in attendance. You weren't invited because <insert drum roll> you aren't a wholesaler. Hence the name "Wholesaler Meeting". Careful, your confederate flag is showing.

Sincerely,
A southern born white gal.

 

[naesco]

Devils Advocate

One of the iedeas floated in this forum was the creation of an AMDA buying group.
The lucky wholesaler who got the contract to service the AMDA membership wouldn't risk allowing West coast AMDA member cherry pickers in his facility. Each AMDA member would have equal opportunity for choice specimens whether they lived on the west coast or not. That is waht I meant.

It follows naturally that a successful AMDA might want to hook up with its own supplier who would solely look after AMDA's interest.
Why is success a victem. That's unA-American.

As Rover pointed out nobody is telling anyone where to purchase. But I have to say that it appears that most B&M stores are wisening up to the fact that they do not want to line the pockets of their competitors.

 

[devils advocate]

Hey Wayne...I never intimated that success is bad. The point trying to be made is that to fully service the entire AMDA membership, as it would surely blossom :roll: , would require a rather large operation to keep them all happy. Since all the major wholesalers are in some way serving etailers, the choice of wholesaler would be one of much smaller scale. With limited resources already, where would all the so-called cherry items come to service these needs.

Without a unified membership, almost all purchasing from an AMDA faciltiy or AMDA approved facility, this exercise would surely doomed for a ride in a handbasket .

 

[dizzy]

Well Mary that is certainly good to hear. All the white boy wholesalers buy from the Asians in the field. I would imagine the Asian importers have access to pretty much the same fish. What I was trying to say before nano tried to turn it into a racist thing, was that I doubt the Asians bother telling y'all about their business. I've been to All Seas and it was clean and appeared well maintained. Ted is a gentleman and apparently a good businessman. I respect the Asian wholesalers as much as the white boys and that's for sure.
Mitch