Etail/AMDA

[naesco]

I acknowledge your experience on the various boards you sat on although you are not on any of them any more. But, that does not mean that you can call posters who do not share your opinions, idiots, morons, fools and the like.

Mary you started this thread. You invited discussion on this subject.
Let me repeat this one more time.

For the B&M stores this is a serious matter that requires full discussion. It is their livlihood and thus their decision as to who and who will not be allowed membership in the NEW AMDA.

Thank you
Wayne

 

[MaryHM]

I doubt the Asians bother telling y'all about their business.

You'd be surprised what we all know about each other's businesses. Information doesn't have to come directly from the owner to be true. Remember, there are lots of employees at all of these wholesalers ('cept mine!) and there are lots of customers coming in and out of these wholesalers every day ('cept mine!).

 

[nanocat]

What I was trying to say before nano tried to turn it into a racist thing, was that I doubt the Asians bother telling y'all about their business. Mitch

Tried to turn it into a racist thing? Sir, you need a reality check. It is not necessary, nor appropriate to describe each other by the color of our skin. No one needed to turn it into a racist thing, you do that all by yourself without any help - and sadly, you don't even seem to realize how wrong it is.

They are wholesalers. Period. Not nationalities.

Y'all.

 

[JennM]

It's amazing how many turns this thread has taken, without being any closer to the answer to the original question...

Mary, FWIW this non-member really doesn't see a huge problem with facility etailers with one provision: The livestock being shipped out MUST come from the seller's own facility. That way, one can't circumvent the system by having a B&M in BFE, but drop-shipping orders from LAX. People tanking their own stuff before shipping, have at least some of the similar overhead that B&M do.

Curiously when I first came online, many posters were touting the praises of etail... seems that to many at least, the pendulum is swinging the other way and the trend is going back to retail for livestock, at least.

You're also right, Mary that the manufacturers of dry goods are the biggest detriment... how "Tank Stuff Cheap.com" can sell Maxi Jets cheaper to hobbyists than I can buy them from my regular wholesaler pisses me off to no end. Still, good customers see the value added in buying from me (thank goodness!). It's a catch-22, I'd love to stop supporting the vendors/manufacturers that undermine me, but that would eliminate just about every product line there is, and "brand recognition" is very important. Marineland/Aquarium Systems can pimp its salt through Pet**** for dirt cheap, with free shipping (although I think they lost a $$bundle when that coupon spread like wildfire around the 'net last time...), but if I stopped carrying Instant Ocean I'd be signing my own death warrant.

I am curious to see how AMDA comes down on it... just where the line is drawn. I do think there is value in retailers teaming up for some things, but the idea of an "AMDA wholesaler" is ludicrous... I can see certain wholesalers being "recommended" because of higher standards etc., or in solidarity as fellow members, but you can't tell retailers where to buy from or who not to buy from... many of us would be clamouring for the same stuff... then who gets the dregs?

Some would like to oversimplify things, but it's really a complex issue all around.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

You are correct Jenn. There is no way that an AMDA wholeslaer would ever work. The goal is not to secure a single facility fromwhich to fight over cherries, but to change the system as a whole. We aren't trying to secure a wholesaler from which no one else can buy, but to gain recognition from the wholesalers we are currently buying from. Through unity we can at least send a big reminder to some as to who their important customers are. A buying group makes much more sense when dealing with product manufacturers (ie maxi jets) as there is no limit to supply, and that is an issue that is also being addressed although the livestock part of the discussion tends to get the most attention. Again, the purpose isn't to tell anyone where they can and cant buy, the purpose is to inform and arm the storefronts so that they canmake good business decisions. Think of it more as a lobbying group than a buying group. Hobbyist are able to use the net to glean info and learn from other hobbyists, it's time something similar was set up for retailers.

 

[MaryHM]

Mary, FWIW this non-member really doesn't see a huge problem with facility etailers with one provision: The livestock being shipped out MUST come from the seller's own facility. That way, one can't circumvent the system by having a B&M in BFE, but drop-shipping orders from LAX. People tanking their own stuff before shipping, have at least some of the similar overhead that B&M do.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Rover- glad someone on the AMDA BOD is thinking realistically and logically about this situation.

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
It is not logical or realistic to respond to Waynes musings as if they were AMDA policy.
Perhaps you have his group CAMDA confused with our group AMDA.
AMDA wholesaler with 'cherries for everyone'? Cornering the market on Christmas Island ? Does that sound like people who have been in the biz since puberty?...puh-lease.
Steve

 

[MaryHM]

Well, with Mitch agreeing with Wayne and you pretty much staying out of it.... I agree about Wayne's musings and I am going to do my darn best to look at them for what they are and ignore them accordingly- to not validate them by wasting my time with a response. Pray for me!!

If the AMDA wholesaler can get cherries for everyone, I'll drop etail, join AMDA, and buy from them!!!

 

[dizzy]

What I was trying to say before nano tried to turn it into a racist thing, was that I doubt the Asians bother telling y'all about their business. Mitch

Tried to turn it into a racist thing? Sir, you need a reality check. It is not necessary, nor appropriate to describe each other by the color of our skin. No one needed to turn it into a racist thing, you do that all by yourself without any help - and sadly, you don't even seem to realize how wrong it is.

They are wholesalers. Period. Not nationalities.

Y'all.

Lose the patronizing, politically correct phoney act please. :roll: I can call white guys white boys if I want too since I'm a member of the Caucasian racial division of humankind. I respectfully referred to the Asian wholesalers as Asians and not yellow skins or some other derogatory remark like you are trying to suggest. I have enough Asian friends and customers to have a bit of an understanding of Asian culture. We are different cultures and we realize it, but that doesn't mean we dislike or disrespect each other. People like you and Johnny Cochran always try to make more out of stuff like this that they should.

I'll tell you what's racist my friend. It is racist to suggest that two fish can both be collected by cyanide and shipped to two different wholesalers here in the US. One is white the other Asian and come out differently. What I see people trying to infer is that somehow the fish coming out of the white owned facility are cleaner now than the one coming out of the Asian owned facility. Conversely if a fish originates in Hawaii it does not get dirty by being at the Asian wholesaler. White boys can't launder dirty fish clean. For Mary to suggest that AMDA should not consider doing business with the Asian wholesalers seems racist to me. Respectfully nano you need to work on that reading comprehension.

The really ironic thing is that the workers at all the wholesale facilities, salepeople aside, are mostly Latino/Latina workers. I got a little clue for you nano. If people speak different languages people tend to notice. You need to learn to live in the real world. It's attitudes like yours that keep groups in economic poverty.

 

[MaryHM]

For Mary to suggest that AMDA should not consider doing business with the Asian wholesalers seems racist to me.

Mitch, you're going off the deep end. Seriously. Where did I say AMDA shouldn't do business with the "Asian Wholesalers"? Like I said, there are other Asian wholesalers- heck, I buy from some of them because they have excellent livestock! It's not about race, it's about what I've seen. And what I've seen at some places has left me feeling disgusted. Believe me, some places are worse than others. You may visit a wholesaler once, Mitch. I've had the "priveledge" of visiting them many, many times over a course of years. You need to get it out of your head that there is only one Asian wholesaler- broaden your horizons and look at the facts. I am so fed up with people in here putting words in my mouth and twisting meanings just to try to validate their personal problems with me/my business. You tried to imply racism because Asians weren't invited to the wholesaler meeting. You were proved wrong. So now you're trying to find racism somewhere else. It's getting quite ridiculous. I expected more from you, Mitch. If you want to make an accusation against me, use facts. Otherwise "never miss a chance to keep your big mouth shut."

 

[Anonymous]

The pettines and lack of disrespect we display for each other in here is quite disturbing. I'm not interested in who started it, who is wrong, or who is right.


"Never miss an opportunity to take the high road."

 

[dizzy]

It's not some huge secret, Mitch. I talk to big wholesalers- I'm friends with some. We talk about these things. Even the ones that have tried desparately to keep it a secret (I won't name any names) have eventually been found out. When you're saying the Asian wholesalers, I assume you mean ***. If AMDA thinks *** is the way to go, then be my guest. Please, buy as many of their fish as you want. I'm sure Steve would approve. :roll:

People like Julian Sprung and Bob Feener speak highly of the owners you refer too. Read the Acknowledgements in their books some time.
Mitch

PS
Mary I don't really think you are a racist.

 

[MaryHM]

Mitch, the only reason I assumed you were talking about AS when you referred to the Asian Wholesalers is because they were the only ones not in attendance. I didn't realize when I said that that you were under the belief that there was only 1 Asian wholesaler in Los Angeles. People like Julian Sprung and Bob Fenner are not in the business of buying fish. They're in the business of writing about them. If you don't think I'm a racist, then don't ludicriously twist my statements and call me one.

 

[clarionreef]

Clarification if I might;
The cyanide trade was inspired and tolerated by two notorious and despicable dictators...Suharto of Indonesia and Marcos of the Philippines.
There are a few dozen exporters that really benefited from the kleptocracy and corruption that typified the two respective fisheries departments.
In a real Democracy these guys would have been jailed. Some of them have opened up US branches to ship to. These guys rewrote the book on cheapness of product as they couldn't compete with smoother talking 'locals' on their own turf. They took the peddling of cyanide fish to a whole new level.
Supporting them by citing a few writers who found them 'co-operative' in their own limited dealings with them does nothing to erase the damage they have inflicted on their own people thru their 'getting over' w/ the trade in poisoned fish.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
At the LA conference;
Underwater world was there as was Arsian.
An exporter from INDO as well. I had lunch w/ him and he told me how cyanide is be used properly in Indonesia.
Any others out of the dozens operating in LA that you can recall?
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Careful, your confederate flag is showing. Sincerely,
A southern born white gal.

Mary that was my Pot calling the kettle black defense. You and nano suggested I was a racist. (see above) I think most of us truly have a deep respect for our oriental friends and countrymen. BTW Bob Feener has been wet most of his life. I'll guarantee you he is welcome in any of the LA wholesalers, any time. FYI Julian also started out as a hose sucker working for Jeff Turner when Jeff owned Exotic Aquaria Inc. in N. Miami Beach. You can bet your sweet biffy he knows what the inside of AS East looks like. Glenn is right we all need to be a little nicer to each other.
Mitch

 

[dizzy]

Supporting them by citing a few writers who found them 'co-operative' in their own limited dealings with them does nothing to erase the damage they have inflicted on their own people thru their 'getting over' w/ the trade in poisoned fish.
Steve

Please define limited, they may have a great deal more dealings with them than you think. I have limited experience dealing with them. I fail to see how we can truly reform the trade without including them in the big picture. If they have sinned in the past, if does not mean we give up on them. We all fall short of the Glory of God and that includes some of the white boys who are regular speakers at MACNA.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch,
Customers will always see a dealer differently then a fellow insider.
Steve
PS. 25 years of dealing cyanide to children under Marcos and currently, ruining coral reefs, threatening to kill people and corrupting a the fisheries dept is hardly erased with Julians blessing of a pleasant stateside sister in the family.
If they are now clean...then everyone is and the trade is now reborn.

 

[dizzy]

Steve,
My entire point was lost due to the sideshow circus of the inflamatory and completely false charges brought by nano. There may well be some bad apples among the Asian wholesalers in LA. I have no personal knowledge of how the operation works in the country of origin, but I understand that you do. That doesn't however, mean AMDA should judge all Asian importers as a single group. Without naming names, I can tell you I buy both fresh and salt from a couple of them and they have always been a pleasure to work with. Could be the same ones Mary buys from. :wink: Getting back to the original point. There is a good possibility that some of the wholesalers may look at the retail stores as a larger potential market than etailers. Especially if they aren't one of those making house calls for the good doctors. :roll:

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch,
As the cyanide trade used to be an exclusively Indo pacific one...Americans, Germans and Australians are now in it as well. It will be interesting to see how they go-along with the way things have been done for so many years.
So far, it appears that they rival their Asian competitors in not caring how the fish are collected. I am not surprised at the Yanks and the Germans in ownership but the Aussies aiding and abetting...they know better.
To deepen their complicity in this once Asian anamolie, many of them own their own import facility in the US, Oz and Germany...and ship to themselves. Plausible deniability is slipping away.
Steve
PS. We are now evolving a rainbow coalition of exporters whos smallest concern is the way the fish are collected. If the trade gets shut down, this is how and why it will.