A
coralfarmin":2pvty0wc said:
CF,
Some of the people "exchanging opinions" in this forum, know about the situation in the Philippines since the late 80's, I am talking about the use of cyanide and the exploitation of fisherfolks by the industry. Hundreds of fish collectors have been trained to use nets instead of cyanide but the industry has failed to support any iniative implemented by NGOs contributing to find solutions to the problems the industry faces in the Philippines.
Fish collectors have been trained thanks to the efforts of NGOs, the results are not as good as the folks from the industry want. Most of the funds came from funding agencies in different countries, the contribution of the marine aquarium industry is almost nil .
I have been following this forum for almost 3 years. There are a couple of individuals that are good in rethoric but weak in what counts.
What is needed is new blood to make a difference. There are many things you can do. Good luck!
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
" the contribution of the marine aquarium industry is almost nil ". ??
Any half enlightened exporter could at any time choose to support the good guys.
Any importer could at any time choose to support the good guys.
Any retailer or service guy could choose at any time to support the good guys...
and the public...?
Why do they reward the status quo so?
Millions are sent every year from business to business.
Millions have been spent by the NGOs ...
THAT CLAIMED THEY COULD DO THE JOB IN ORDER TO AQUIRE THE FUNDING.
This issue has perhaps been poisoned by money.
The wrong money
to the wrong people to attempt
the wrong approach with
the wrong materials.
More money after bad?
Why?
Any new approach should first prove itself on site ...on film.
Steve
Any half enlightened exporter could at any time choose to support the good guys.
Any importer could at any time choose to support the good guys.
Any retailer or service guy could choose at any time to support the good guys...
and the public...?
Why do they reward the status quo so?
Millions are sent every year from business to business.
Millions have been spent by the NGOs ...
THAT CLAIMED THEY COULD DO THE JOB IN ORDER TO AQUIRE THE FUNDING.
This issue has perhaps been poisoned by money.
The wrong money
to the wrong people to attempt
the wrong approach with
the wrong materials.
More money after bad?
Why?
Any new approach should first prove itself on site ...on film.
Steve
If I re-analyze, the context, that it is in
would you care to offer a brief *tutation* of this thread
, if I have any *field slog* that needs to be, re-analyzed ? With a certified *field slog* analysis ? From your foundation, So my *foundation* can despose of it in a * enviromentaly friendly manner *
So I can *comprehend* what you are sayin, and gain more *power*..I mean knowledge, so I can take over the *world* :wink: .....I mean spread the word.
would you care to offer a brief *tutation* of this thread
, if I have any *field slog* that needs to be, re-analyzed ? With a certified *field slog* analysis ? From your foundation, So my *foundation* can despose of it in a * enviromentaly friendly manner *
So I can *comprehend* what you are sayin, and gain more *power*..I mean knowledge, so I can take over the *world* :wink: .....I mean spread the word.
cortez marine":17h52gj2 said:
Do you remember how much money you collected last year while AMDA's President to support your initiative (Net Fund)? Don't forget you are one of the "good people" attempting to do sometjing positive in the Philippines. Why the industry, or to make it smaller, the AMDA members DID NOT support your right attempts, right approach to buy the right materials?
Seems to me something is wrong with the individual and the AMDA members knew it. Only you know it.
CF, AMDA (American Marine Dealers Association)
btw....anyone want to talk about enviromentaly friendly *hydrocarbon consuming* areobic *microbefarmin* instead, pm me
just kiddin, Im probably the only one here, with them top-secert concept 8) *comprehension skills*...oh well
good night all, and to all a good night :wink:
just kiddin, Im probably the only one here, with them top-secert concept 8) *comprehension skills*...oh well
good night all, and to all a good night :wink:
CF,
I'll end this "discussion" by informing you that the "declared value" of marine ornamentals coming to the States from the Philippines in the last 10 years is around US$ 40 million. We all know that importers are underevaluating shipments. According to Gresham (Robinson's worker) we can multiply that number for 10 to have a more realistic number. That means the value of marine ornamental fish from the Philippines is US$400 million, for the last 10 years..
That is lot of ornamental fishes. Most of the fish have been collected by trained collectors using nets instead of cyanide. Those collectors were trained by different NGOs' programs that took place in the past. The work was not perfect but something positive was done. All these collectors have been trained without significant support of the marine ornamentals industry.
Last year the Net Fund campaign was organized by S. Robinson focusing on the AMDA people and other sectors of the industry, industry that makes millions, the result was not good. If I remember they collected US$ 1.000
All I am saying is that the industry has been ignoring all initiatives and DO NOT contribute $ to find solutions to problems created by the industry itself. Coral reefs are the "farms" from where the industry gets the fish, and the collectors are the ones that have contributed somehow to the economic development of that industry. No fish, no invertebrates
means no aquariums = no industry. Those farms and collectors have been neglected by the industry.
Now, MAC is trying to help to correct the situation and make the trade more sustainable. We know that it is a difficult task. All we get here from an individuas is destructive criticism that won't help. As I said before the individual is strong in rethoric but weak in what counts.
Mark is working on it, lets hope that the critics are constructive.
I'll end this "discussion" by informing you that the "declared value" of marine ornamentals coming to the States from the Philippines in the last 10 years is around US$ 40 million. We all know that importers are underevaluating shipments. According to Gresham (Robinson's worker) we can multiply that number for 10 to have a more realistic number. That means the value of marine ornamental fish from the Philippines is US$400 million, for the last 10 years..
That is lot of ornamental fishes. Most of the fish have been collected by trained collectors using nets instead of cyanide. Those collectors were trained by different NGOs' programs that took place in the past. The work was not perfect but something positive was done. All these collectors have been trained without significant support of the marine ornamentals industry.
Last year the Net Fund campaign was organized by S. Robinson focusing on the AMDA people and other sectors of the industry, industry that makes millions, the result was not good. If I remember they collected US$ 1.000
All I am saying is that the industry has been ignoring all initiatives and DO NOT contribute $ to find solutions to problems created by the industry itself. Coral reefs are the "farms" from where the industry gets the fish, and the collectors are the ones that have contributed somehow to the economic development of that industry. No fish, no invertebrates
means no aquariums = no industry. Those farms and collectors have been neglected by the industry.
Now, MAC is trying to help to correct the situation and make the trade more sustainable. We know that it is a difficult task. All we get here from an individuas is destructive criticism that won't help. As I said before the individual is strong in rethoric but weak in what counts.
Mark is working on it, lets hope that the critics are constructive.
Jaime, it seems to me when you say "Industry hasn't supported the net fishermen", then what your really saying is "Filipino exporters aren't supporting their own net fishermen." And that is where the problem is. PERIOD. You know as well as I do, that it's the exporters handing out the cyanide, and keeping the fishermen "indentured".
So the real problem with MO collection in the PI, is the EXPORTERS, even those that are MAC certified.
IF, the exporters paid more for the netted fish, then more collectors would be "motivated" to learn net techs. The exporters would then pass on the increase to the importers who pass it on to the retailers who pass it on to the hobbiests. What is wrong with that? Problem solved. And yes it is that simple.
Although I like the idea of the "fishermen CO-OP" or "Assoc.", just which uneducated fishermen is going to keep the books? I know alot has changed in the (almost) 40 yrs since I lived in PI, but when did the rural, coastal people start getting educated? Did the PI start sending children to school? Or better yet, when can poor fishermen afford to send their kids to school (catholic), afford to pay for the uniforms and afford for them to be away from home not helping the family make money? (Horge, help me on that one?)
CF? Why do you want to talk about "worm composting" on a fish forum?
And finally, Mark. For whom I will await your responce, (as far as "this" hobbiest is concerned) nothing new has been happening in the PI. What MAC has been doing for the last 5 months, is the same thing it's been doing all along. Just have to read the MAC newsletters to find that out.
So the real problem with MO collection in the PI, is the EXPORTERS, even those that are MAC certified.
IF, the exporters paid more for the netted fish, then more collectors would be "motivated" to learn net techs. The exporters would then pass on the increase to the importers who pass it on to the retailers who pass it on to the hobbiests. What is wrong with that? Problem solved. And yes it is that simple.
Although I like the idea of the "fishermen CO-OP" or "Assoc.", just which uneducated fishermen is going to keep the books? I know alot has changed in the (almost) 40 yrs since I lived in PI, but when did the rural, coastal people start getting educated? Did the PI start sending children to school? Or better yet, when can poor fishermen afford to send their kids to school (catholic), afford to pay for the uniforms and afford for them to be away from home not helping the family make money? (Horge, help me on that one?)
CF? Why do you want to talk about "worm composting" on a fish forum?
And finally, Mark. For whom I will await your responce, (as far as "this" hobbiest is concerned) nothing new has been happening in the PI. What MAC has been doing for the last 5 months, is the same thing it's been doing all along. Just have to read the MAC newsletters to find that out.
lol...these microbes only consume *hydrocarbons* ie..oil, diesel etc etc and ya cant see them, even a child could grow them, long as they have a supply of hydrocarbon
I'll give ya a hint...It involves exploded cotton seed....not worms :wink:
I do however "feel comfortable saying" I know almost everything there is to know about *wormfarmin* also :wink: and organicfarmin...how bout *cricket crap* have ya ever farmed that
if ya like we can talk about that,also
just kiddin, I'd really rather stick to the *cause* :wink:
I'll give ya a hint...It involves exploded cotton seed....not worms :wink:
I do however "feel comfortable saying" I know almost everything there is to know about *wormfarmin* also :wink: and organicfarmin...how bout *cricket crap* have ya ever farmed that
if ya like we can talk about that,also
just kiddin, I'd really rather stick to the *cause* :wink:
Sorry, my mistake. The neighbors roofers woke me up at 5:30 and I was still asleep when I read that. But it's still "composting." And you didn't answer the question. Why do you want to talk about composting on a fish forum?
May I direct you to here, http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.p ... 7393289825
where you may talk about anything your heart desires. They really don't care about topics down there. :lol:
May I direct you to here, http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewforum.p ... 7393289825
where you may talk about anything your heart desires. They really don't care about topics down there. :lol:
knowse":1xg505js said:
Sally,
When I say industry, I include every link of the chain. Middlemen/women, exporters, importers, transhipers, wholesalers, retailers and hobbyist. The response of each one of those from this side of the pond has been almost nil. Since the late 80's early 90's different programs have been developed in the PI, different groups asked for support for nets and net training but no response. One example, the "Net Fund" campaign runned last year by AMDA's president.
I do agree that part of the responsibility is on exporters shoulders. However, some of them are doing things better that in the past. Exporters are "providing"("selling") nets to collectors and some of them want to see changes. Those are the ones that could star the ball rolling.
Also, I think that part of the responsibility is on the shoulders of those that create the demand. Hobbyist go to the shop to buy from retailers that obtain their fish from importers. The reward for the hobbyist is the satisfaction and challenge to keep the fish alive. For the other guys is profit more than anything else. So, the US$1 fish paid to the collector becomes the US$ 30 for the retailer. I understand that there is overhead, shipping cost and all the other things. There is a profit because of that little fish collected in a coral reef thousand of miles away. The problem is that no one cent from that profit goes back to the reef, neither the collector.
There are in the Philippines very good community organizers, social workers and good community leaders that could orient poor people in that direction.
Thanks.
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