Vendor Issues

[Josh]

To answer the question and quell rumors, yes a member/vendor was temporarily banned from the website.

Why? There are certainly two sides to every story, so feel free to ask questions. Basically the member was excessively hostile towards the moderators and administrators and refused any and all efforts to discuss these matters.

How does a member get banned? Basically all of the moderators voice their opinion as an informal vote. This member had the support of the majority of the moderators but after several weeks of hostile messages directed at the staff, there was no support for giving the member another chance. To make sure there was no conflict of interest, one of the moderators abstained from voicing any sort of opinion or vote.

We take this community seriously and will not beholden to threats, insults and disrespect for the few rules that we have. Moderators spend a lot of time making peace here but we are not miracle workers. If someone doesn't want to have a rational conversation and air their grievances then we cannot be of service. Many people made many efforts to resolve these issues over the course of months, these offers were ignored and most recently returned with messages that were beyond the scope of our capacity as moderators.

Despite opinions to the contrary, this site makes no money and has no direct affiliation or allegiance to any particular manufacturer, supplier, vendor or LFS. In fact, the administrators and owners of this domain have no aquariums or interest in the hobby whatsoever, it is about interactive community. That being said, the community is more important than any one individual and we will do our best to protect the reputation and well being of the hobbyists who call this place home.

If you disagree with anything we have done, feel free to email the administrators. We are very open about our decisions and actions and have nothing to hide.

Given all this, you are welcome to communicate with each other on any of the 100's of other reef sites on the web.

We hope that you understand our efforts to protect this community and will keep conversations about these matters civil.

Thank you.

 

[SlamaJama]

emailing admins i think hides some discrepencies...while most will just read and run, i think this should be openly discussed, theres more to this, and I dont think any admins or mods have decsended straight from heaven...im sure some1 has benifited from all this...

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Despite opinions to the contrary, this site makes no money and has no direct affiliation or allegiance to any particular manufacturer, supplier, vendor or LFS. In fact, the administrators and owners of this domain have no aquariums or interest in the hobby whatsoever, it is about interactive community. That being said, the community is more important than any one individual and we will do our best to protect the reputation and well being of the hobbyists who call this place home.

If you disagree with anything we have done, feel free to email the administrators. We are very open about our decisions and actions and have nothing to hide.

Josh,

Your statement in the first post does make me curious whether the site is formed under a corporation but the owners have no interest to make money out of it or it is formed under a non profit organisation or not even legally registered at all? What tax form does it need to filed at end of the fiscal year.

Given all this, you are welcome to communicate with each other on any of the 100's of other reef sites on the web.

We hope that you understand our efforts to protect this community and will keep conversations about these matters civil.

Thank you.

I have no idea what this thread is really about nor what quarrel has happened but I sincerely appreciate what the mods have done for the site (even though I do not think they are always objective, fair...enough) and I really enjoy being a MEMBER here.

 

[Pedro]

Which Vendor got banned?

 

[charile1]

Every post or thread this member writes to complains is either deleted or closed. I can see why he's pissed.

Vendors should not be Moderators.

 

[fritz]

Jim and Russ, you guys are great, your products are great, your prices are great and your advice is great. You're both an asset to this site. I do feel that being moderators puts you on an unequal footing with other vendors. In the real world for example I'm legally prohibited from doing a million and one things in my line of business simply because there is a remote and somewhat possible conflict of interests.

Your belonging to this site is now for profit. A year ago you had no interest (economically) in the site, now you do. It would be fair and a good gesture IMO to step down as moderators. It's not like being a moderator is a paying job, and it's not like we won't all be your friends anymore if you step down as mod. There's really no reason to continue being a mod.

But what do I know, or care really?

 

[twinreef]

I would also like to know What happen. What person got banned and whats his side of the story is.

 

[nanoreefer22]

Jim and Russ, you guys are great, your products are great, your prices are great and your advice is great. You're both an asset to this site. I do feel that being moderators puts you on an unequal footing with other vendors. In the real world for example I'm legally prohibited from doing a million and one things in my line of business simply because there is a remote and somewhat possible conflict of interests.

Your belonging to this site is now for profit. A year ago you had no interest (economically) in the site, now you do. It would be fair and a good gesture IMO to step down as moderators. It's not like being a moderator is a paying job, and it's not like we won't all be your friends anymore if you step down as mod. There's really no reason to continue being a mod.

But what do I know, or care really?

I have to agree with Fred on this one. I thought you should step down as a mod since you became a vendor on this site. I'm sure me and Fred aren't the only ones that feel this way. Fred said it best, when he said being a moderator does kind of put you at an advantage among the vendors.

-Kris

 

[pnoyreefer]

I have to agree with Fred on this one. I thought you should step down as a mod since you became a vendor on this site. I'm sure me and Fred aren't the only ones that feel this way. Fred said it best, when he said being a moderator does kind of put you at an advantage among the vendors.

-Kris

This site is the only site I have spent most of my day during work cuz of all info, advise and also from fellow reefers and from vendors who are selling coral, equipment for cheap price compare to most online site. Aside from that I also see agree with the above post by fred and khris that being a MOD/Vendor gives you advantages from others in JMHO. I hope that someday we can all work things out as we have a common values and goals and that is to have FUN, MAKE FRIENDS, and LEARN FROM EACHOTHER's UPS and DOWNS..


steve

 

[thepudge]

Your statement in the first post does make me curious whether the site is formed under a corporation but the owners have no interest to make money out of it or it is formed under a non profit organisation or not even legally registered at all? What tax form does it need to filed at end of the fiscal year.

This is a really good point. If manhattanreefs isn't incorporated, it should be. Particuarly because there seems to be a lot of um... disagreement on the site as of late. You don't want mods and site administrators to be personally liable if there's a lawsuit. Also, you could look into not-for-profit status and seek 501(c)(3) exemption, if that is something you'd be interested in.

Be happy to help - let me know.

 

[chazertis]

i'm with twinreef. ?????????? what happened? now that we've got the press release, can we hear the story?:help:

 

[SlamaJama]

oh jesus...it was deepwater, over vendor issues that im sure none of us other than the persons involved know ALL the facts...but the fact still remains this has been comming to a head for a long time and the almighty powers that be couldntget a resolution fast enough to avoid all of this...kudos!

 

[Salesbig]

Well its my turn

If youre going to open up a thread discussing a vendor you should give him a chance to defend himself

If youre going to take a vote.... MODS WHO ARE INCLUDED SHOULD NOT BE VENDORS.. BIG CONFLICT OF INTEREST sorry house..MODS SHOULD NOT BE VENDORS AND VENDORS SHOULD NOT BE MODS.
No offense to House or any other mods. Even if Denos or bad coffee or any other mods want to become vendors.. Mod status is gone..
The same way you dont make vendors mods.

If A vendor complains numours times.. you should handle it correctly and not let other members PM members who buy from him and tell him he sucks.. or I can get it cheaper even though they are not vendors.> THOSE GUYS SHOULD BE BANNNED


Let the vendor defend himslef here as you are defending yourself..

Take his complaints seriously. Follow up on complaints. Ban the members who sell as vendors and try to under cut your supporting members.

This thread should be closed unless you give him a chance to defend himself..


This thread is just set up so MR can cover its back..

 

[Dace]

Sorry but i really liked this site before vendors were allowed on this site. We were all like a big family. I know that this site can't run without any funds being donated, but with the amount of new members which has been alot, i would prefer charging a small annual member fee then deal with all the bull that has been created lately. I too do not spend half as much time on this site any more because there seems to be alot of quality issued that have aroused in the last year. I my self have had a major issue helping some members on this site and they have tried to stab me in the back (Clownfishking -Adrian) which has brought my vendor status to a complete halt. Sometimes you try to help people and they think of themselves later without thinking of the damage they can cause . I don't know what ronen has done, but i know he is a good person aways willing to help someone on this board starting with me and feel that there is no way he should have been banned for vendor issues. I see post people make all the time that are deleted right away but some people can say what they want and there post will stand. Maybe we should up some cash for the site and leave the vendors selling some where else. Lets get this site back to what it used to be.

:grouphug:

 

[Josh]

In my first post I mentioned that one of the mods did not vote, I can't be any clearer than that.

Several people reached out to the person who was banned several times over several months. I was one of them. I gave specific instructions for raising concerns about moderation and none of these suggestions were followed. You can't help people who won't help themselves.

This is not a forum for airing someone's dirty laundry. If they are upset with the system, they can find a new place to speak their peace. Based on the tone of the recent backend conversation, it would not have been appropriate to discuss in public. This is a place for rational and intelligent conversation (that's what we are doing right now), people that cannot behave and follow some sort of guidance within the realm of mediation don't have a place here.

I will remind you that we were all friends here and I cannot emphasize enough the laborious efforts to get a straight answer on what the problems were without the use of profanities and insults directed at those who were trying to mediate a solution.

Regarding a mod being a vendor, I can tell you this. The person in question does not moderate ANY vendor posts or posts by members who are vendors. If we had NO vendors providing advice on how to best represent the interest of all the vendors, we will be having the same conversation in a few months about how all of the administrators are unfair to all of the vendors. We need to get past this "us vs them" mentality. We work as a group. Believe it or not, moderators have come to the rescue of several vendors here and provided many helpful recommendations for how to make the vendor system better.

If a vendor posts something that offends another vendor (and I think taking offense to something like that is taking this whole hobby way too personally, but I digress), the response shouldn't be to start blasting out PMs along the lines of "wtf is up with this, you are all crooked, etc". In my experience, that is not a very good way to get help.

First, determine if they really broke the rules or if they did something that doesn't have a rule written about it yet.

Second, you could simply ask if this sort of post is allowed. If it is, that means you can do it too!

Third, tell a moderator that you think this post is breaking the rules. Do not sit there counting the seconds hand on your watch, we are not sitting there watching the site at all hours of the day. Sometimes it takes time to get things edited/moved, this is certainly true if there is something questionable.

Fourth, if you do not get a response (or if you disagree with the answer), send an email to the administrator at [email protected]. That does not go to any moderators. You will get as fair and balanced an answer as anywhere else.

That is the best advice I can give you for dealing with these sorts of issues. If the only response that can be mustered is an insult, we're not going to make much progress as a group.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Jim and Russ, you guys are great, your products are great, your prices are great and your advice is great. You're both an asset to this site. I do feel that being moderators puts you on an unequal footing with other vendors. In the real world for example I'm legally prohibited from doing a million and one things in my line of business simply because there is a remote and somewhat possible conflict of interests.

Your belonging to this site is now for profit. A year ago you had no interest (economically) in the site, now you do. It would be fair and a good gesture IMO to step down as moderators. It's not like being a moderator is a paying job, and it's not like we won't all be your friends anymore if you step down as mod. There's really no reason to continue being a mod.

But what do I know, or care really?

fred said it the best ....:thrash:

 

[NYreefNoob]

vendor's

i personally could care less if vendor's are mod's. but it's kinda like letting the judge be the lawyer also. ive dealt with most of the vendor's here and have no complaint's. if i did have one or didnt like the way i was handled or dealt with. i just wouldnt do business with that person again

 

[Tonyscoots84]

How does a member get banned? Basically all of the moderators voice their opinion as an informal vote.

how come i wasnt asked to voice my opinion as an informal vote :scratch:???

 

[Pedro]

Tony, you are not part of the click...

Profanities used in PM's should not be a basis for banning. I have seen scammers come on the site trying to scam members and they were given the time of day, because that was considered ok.

There will always be issues with vendors, it's all about competition and in a market society, that's what it's about.

I think MR is getting too big for it's own good. The days of a friendly and open site seem to be deteriorating.

On a final note, the banned party should be given a chance to clear the air. There's two sides to every story, but i get it now that it's only one side that matters. The fact that one MOD did not vote is really funny, at 33 years of age i think i can figure things out.

This is in no way meant to attack any of the parties of involved as a person, i am just attacking the principles. It is based on principles that i have also chosen to be less active on the board.

I just hope that someday this site becomes what it once was.

 

[SlamaJama]

Tony, you are not part of the click...

Profanities used in PM's should not be a basis for banning. I have seen scammers come on the site trying to scam members and they were given the time of day, because that was considered ok.

There will always be issues with vendors, it's all about competition and in a market society, that's what it's about.

I think MR is getting too big for it's own good. The days of a friendly and open site seem to be deteriorating.

On a final note, the banned party should be given a chance to clear the air. There's two sides to every story, but i get it now that it's only one side that matters. The fact that one MOD did not vote is really funny, at 33 years of age i think i can figure things out.

This is in no way meant to attack any of the parties of involved as a person, i am just attacking the principles. It is based on principles that i have also chosen to be less active on the board.

I just hope that someday this site becomes what it once was.

Im luv'in this P...very well said...hypocrisy reins.