Who is Responsible?!?

[ming]

I just want to voice my experience. I ordered 2 wrasses shipped monday and arrived tuesday. Thought they were goners for sure because they can play dead very well, but acclimated them per Michael's instructions. I let michael know of the situation due to reading this thread, and Michael just wanted to be kept updated if they survive or not. From this, I am confident Michael sounds like he would live up to his guarantee. I took a sneak peak this morning before work and they look 1000x better. I'll know for sure when I come home with the lights on.

I dont want to get into the whos right/whos wrong on this thread, but wanted to give my experience. Keep in mind my fish was shipped, and not picked up

 

[Domboski]

But what happens a lot of time is someone gets in a really pretty fish or coral and everyone just wants it. There is no warning from the vendors that the fish or coral is hard to keep and the survival rate is horrible, and it should be left to an expert. To make matters worst everyone else see the fish or coral and want one. The vendors then bring in a whole of the item only to have them die in peoples tank.

This is a problem. Unfortunately, this is human nature and this behavior is taken advantage of not only with fish / animals but any consumer product and now even prescription drugs!

I totally agree that vendors should do the best they can to educate potential buyers and be responsible about distribution. I am not sure if that is a problem on MR but it is certainly a problem in general.

I have seen most vendors on this site offer good advice even if it prohibits a sale. As buyers, asking the questions like digitalreefer mentioned helps put the pressure on vendors to be up to date and honest about the care of the animal.

BTW, We should all go to you for fish advice . I learned a lot from you in an hour that I have in quite some time!

 

[Wes]

IME, fairy wrasses in general have been pretty hardy fish...The tricky part is keeping them from jumping out.

i don't think Flame Wrasses fall into the "expert only" category at all.

a blurb from marinedepotlive

General Notes: Cirrhilabrus Jordani also known as the Flame Wrasse comes to us from Hawaii. One of the hardiest and most beautiful of the genus it is not often available as collection is somewhat limited. Please email or call in advance prior to placing your order for this bright beauty. This fish is one of the larger of the fairy wrasse species reaching almost five inches in length as an adult and well known for it's ability to jump from open topped tanks. Like other fairy wrasses of the Cirrhilabrus genus, it is fairly hardy and should be given plenty of places to hide. After it establishes it will become more active and be one of the best eaters in your tank. In captivity they tend to dull in color slightly when lacking the presence of another male. Do not attempt to keep more than one male unless they will live in a very large tank. Females are best introduced to the tank before or at the same time as the male. Will behave aggressively toward other fairy wrasses that arrive to the tank after them. Please check by email or phone prior to ordering this item as it is not always available.

 

[herman]

Although the vendors don't publish this info, all it takes is asking "I have an xx gallon tank with xx lighting, xx skimming, and xx tankmates. Is this fish appropriate?" I don't think there's a single vendor on this site that would lie if asked the above statement. At least 2 vendors here have told me I shouldn't get something once I asked that simple question.

There is the other side of the equation also. I have experience, not a horrible reefkeeper, got great equipment. My fishlist is the standard cheap docile kind including a Yellow Tang. That POS fish is about a year and a half old still small. But it is the meanest little sucker towards any new fish. Its killed off anything that I have added. How does one guarantee against fish with attitudes?

 

[ming]

How does one guarantee against fish with attitudes?

Thats like guaranteeing your fish wont get eaten by a large grouper.. I doubt its ever gonna happen.. lol

 

[herman]

In this thread I dont think there is a right or wrong person. People in the past have spoken quite highly of M.Sterns fish. Slama is a great reefkeeper. His tank in general does well.

Fish autopsy would be the only way to determine a definitive outcome. That however is not feasable.

Chris (loismustdie) are you ready for the angry Yellow Tang yet?

 

[herman]

Thats like guaranteeing your fish wont get eaten by a large grouper.. I doubt its ever gonna happen.. lol

Which brings me to post one of my favorite pics

 

[Deanos]

Clean your glass! :screama:

 

[digitalreefer]

I'm not saying the vendors should guarantee that this is the case, but if I told a vendor I wanted a hawkfish, I wouldn't expect them to tell me anything about the fish. If I told them that I keep 6 shrimp in my tank and asked if the hawkfish would be appropriate, I would expect (and I think get from our vendors) the answer that it's an inappropriate fish for me.

 

[herman]

Clean your glass! :screama:

That ain't my glass

 

[Psycho graphic]

WARNING: This is a generalization, it is not directed at any one person but to us as the "General Public".

There have been a decent amount of posts where people feel it's the vendors responsibilty to warn the buyer of difficult to keep livestock.
While this would be a great service, why is it the vendors responsibilty to do so? How many times when a salesperson asks regarding the housing of a fish are they lied to? It happens all the time.


When did people in the US not become responsible for their own actions?

Do you go buy a new car or any major appliance and not ask what warranty comes with it? Maybe vendors should do like the major electonics store do, you want an extended warranty, you pay for it. Although I think this idea would fail miseably.

The bottom line is, it's your money, if you don't care if it's wasted, then don't bother to research before you purchase.

 

[ming]

Yup, IMO, its the vendors responsibility to provide accurate information ONLY when the customer asks questions.

That comes from my experience as a former LFS worker, you dont want to have to ask every single person because it gets annoying and not everybody is interested in what you have to say, and as a consumer, I dont want to be pestered when I know what I have and what I'm buying.

 

[digitalreefer]

Yup, IMO, its the vendors responsibility to provide accurate information ONLY when the customer asks questions.

That comes from my experience as a former LFS worker, you dont want to have to ask every single person because it gets annoying and not everybody is interested in what you have to say, and as a consumer, I dont want to be pestered when I know what I have and what I'm buying.

I tend to agree... how would everyone feel if every time you bought an SPS coral, the LFS or vendor made you detail your setup before selling it to you?
I believe it's my responsibility to research... or at least ask... before I buy a fish.

 

[chazertis]

another story of experience:

i ordered a flame angel and a purple firefish from nyaquatic. the box was accidentally packed with one heat bag instead of two when it was freezing outside. both fish appeared on the brink of death in the bag. i immediately called and pm'd the vendor and let him know. while the flame angel has survived and is thriving, the purple firefish did not make it. stern immediately gave me a refund. no questions asked.

if u take advantage of the low price, u assume the risk.

 

[marrone]

WARNING: This is a generalization, it is not directed at any one person but to us as the "General Public".

There have been a decent amount of posts where people feel it's the vendors responsibilty to warn the buyer of difficult to keep livestock.
While this would be a great service, why is it the vendors responsibilty to do so? How many times when a salesperson asks regarding the housing of a fish are they lied to? It happens all the time.

When the decision was made to have vendors sells here on the board it was put to them not to carry livestock that had a very bad survival rate. Now I'm sure they will bring in things that are hard to keep, some people do request it, but they should tell the person about it or make sure the person is experience enough to keep it alive.

You also need to remember this is a community board and everyone here counts on people to give them advise and steer them right. Also the board offers a pretty large pool of people to sell to. Because of that the vendors here should be better than other vendors.

 

[Psycho graphic]

That was the reason for my fisrt sentence, it was not directed at vendors here or the policies here.

 

[ellebelle]

I agree with Mike. I don't think it's fair to ask vendors to interrogate people about their systems when they want to buy something like a clownfish, or any other fish that is rated for beginning or even intermediate reefkeepers. It's when a person requests a item that is more difficult or has extremely specialized needs when I think the vendor should either ask about the system, or even just give some words of warning.

 

[SlamaJama]

research is all well and good and maybe more information is needed and expected, but my point to this whole thread is that we should as a group discourage any vendor that you can have a take the money and run policy...and clearly from the reefberrys and pms Ive received, this is wat this vendor does...takes the money and has no respect for its value its outta sight outta mind mentality and seems to think he is without ANY responsibility.

listen, if it was a $35 fish, I'm sure he would have replaced it, but he cant part with his almighty profits, and personally i feel was his down fall...plain and simple folks, he wanted to make MORE of a profit on the sale, dont be fooled.

unfortunately its a me society and he didn't consider his customer first, just himself. we dont need that sort here....
WE NEED VENDORS TO CONCIDER AND RESPECT WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM..not just say f$ck them.
just because it happened to me, don't mean 2 weeks from now when this thread is dead and buried it wont happen to you

 

[digitalreefer]

When the decision was made to have vendors sells here on the board it was put to them not to carry livestock that had a very bad survival rate.

I do agree with this, but how do you draw that line? Unless the board puts up a restricted list, this is very difficult. A blue ribbon eel might be a no brainer for the list, but what about a mandarin? The vendors should make buyers aware of very difficult animals, but maybe a way to regulate this better should be established.

 

[ShaunW]

When the decision was made to have vendors sells here on the board it was put to them not to carry livestock that had a very bad survival rate. Now I'm sure they will bring in things that are hard to keep, some people do request it, but they should tell the person about it or make sure the person is experience enough to keep it alive.

You also need to remember this is a community board and everyone here counts on people to give them advise and steer them right. Also the board offers a pretty large pool of people to sell to. Because of that the vendors here should be better than other vendors.

As Mike said, when the mods of the board sat down and wrote the rules for vendors we had the above in mind.

It is very hard to differentiate from tank to tank. While one fish may not survive with one reefer it may recover with another. So survival rates differ, however, some corals/fish should just not be taken from their natural environment.